Ep: 18 What Are The Signs of A Narcissistic Mother?
Ep: 18 Transcript
Intro
Jennifer Gunson 0:06
Ah, the lovable narcissist. Learn how to recognize some of the traits of this specific type of narcissist. Listen to the latest episode of Medium Well with Psychic Sharyn Rose, where we are wrapping up the series on narcissists. Not even that… wrapping up Season 1 is an end to 2021, we are heading into 2022 of our brand new season, and many more new episodes! How exciting! But first, we’ve got to find out about that lovable narcissist. We all have one in our lives. And we’re going to talk about specifically the relationship between daughters and their narcissistic moms. And make sure you listen to this episode because Sharyn’s going to share tips and tricks on how to deal with this specific type of person so you don’t feel crazy – no matter what your mom, your dad, or your siblings say about you. In this next episode of Medium Well was Psychic Sharyn Rose. Let’s get started!
What Are The Signs Of A Narcissistic Mother?
Sharyn 1:20
Hey, everybody, welcome back to Medium Well with Psychic Sharyn Rose! Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year! I hope you all are wrapping up 2021 with your best foot forward – feeling good, feeling rested, had a bit of a break. I know I did. I know I have. Today’s the 28th that I’m recording this and it’s probably going to go up in a couple of days. So it’ll be up before the end of the year. And then we’ll be starting a whole new series in January 2022. In the meantime, what I would like to do is I would like to talk a little bit more about narcissism just to wrap up that series because it’s really running rampant on our planet and people are becoming more and more aware of what narcissism is. But there’s also a lot of people poking holes at narcissism. They don’t know what it is.
So, as you can hear, I still have a bit of a raspy voice, but you know what the heck – I’m sitting here drinking Ovaltine while I talk to you – I hope you don’t mind. And thanks for joining me, I really appreciate it.
What Do Narcissistic Mothers Do?
Okay, let’s talk about revealing the narcissist, or understanding them better – him or her. For starters – now I do a lot of studying on Quora – if you want to know more about narcissism Quora is the place where you want to go. There are tons and tons of articles on there. And you’ll notice that some of the articles or some of the stuff that I’m bringing to you here, I’ve taken directly off Quora, and they’ve either been written by people like Eleanor Greenberg or various different people, but they are all people who have studied to some degree – either from being inside of a relationship with a narcissist, or are practitioners who are working in a study with narcissism and BPD and all that kind of stuff. So, don’t ever tell – if you’re in a relationship with a narcissist – don’t tell them you suspect they’re a narcissist! If you do, they’re going to… and for those of you that have been involved in narcissism, I really want you to listen up here because this is important. But if you do, or if you ever have, or if you’ve had a friend who was in a relationship, and all of a sudden they – and you know them as a good person – all of a sudden this person they’re with is talking about how crazy they are, how nuts they’ve been, and the lies they tell and all the rotten things… but you’ve never seen them in that light. You’ve never seen them that way. There’s a good chance they’re being dissed by a narcissist so that you will not have any credibility left. You know, things like people who have known you your whole life or most of your life and who’ve trusted you with the key to their house, all of a sudden they’re crossing the street when you walk down because somebody’s family member who’s a narcissist or your partner has said to them, you know, you’re not to be trusted. There’s this and that – it’s all lies, because narcissists lie habitually. And so that what they need to do is they need to discredit and they’ll immediately discredit everything you’re saying and drag you through hell, if you attempt to get them to expose their narcissistic traits, without them realizing. They’re going to be incredibly agitated at the idea you’re poking at them and that’ll get them to immediately trash you or lash out at you. Provoking a narcissist can be extremely dangerous both mentally and physically, depending on what other disorders or mental illnesses that they suffer from. So, I guess what I’m saying we’ve talked about overts, we’ve talked about coverts – not overt so much because they’re so obvious. But there is a danger because this is a disorder. This isn’t something they’ve just decided that they want to do. A narcissist constructs a thick cocoon around their entire existence to protect themselves from being exposed. And if you’re caught playing games, regardless of how many they’ve played with you, you’re going to pay. So be really, really careful. Now whether or not they are a narcissist, what matters most is understanding that if they are, you’re dealing with an individual who possesses not only zero access to feelings of guilt, and no ability to recognize, acknowledge or empathize with whatever damage they inflict on you, but also an intense desire to project whatever feelings they do experience onto you. It might be shame, anger, fear. And that being said, I get the compulsion to do this, if for nothing more than to confirm they are, in fact a narcissist and solidify in your own mind, for your own validation that you are not making this shit up.
Is Narcissism Born Or Made?
Therefore, there are a couple of ways, but one of the first – and you heard about it before – so this is basically a review on narcissism. One of the things you’ve heard about a lot throughout the years if you’ve been studying narcissism, is the obvious sign is gaslighting. And in order to catch them gaslighting, you must reverse it. Now this is a fun trick, and I have done this myself personally, I have grown up with narcissists. I’ve married narcissists, I’ve had all kinds of experiences. I have friends that have been narcissistic, that are no longer friends, but I didn’t know because I am a narcissistic victim who was groomed at a very, very early age, told that I was this or that or the other thing, and it was incorrect. So I’ve done this. You can pretend to be forgetful. Calling on them to remind you – in quotations – of trivial things in which you remember with utter certainty and watch them lie to you, particularly when they attempt to spin things in their favor. It can be entertaining, it really can. You can also catch them gaslighting, by standing firm in your own recollections and a way to do so is to keep a journal. Now remember, you can show proof to a narcissist in his face in whatever the issue might be, and they will flat out deny it even when they can see the proof. So they’re habitual liars, and their reality is a distorted one. Since having a relationship with a narcissist is essentially a bad dream – because it is – treat it as such and write down everything you can remember after every interaction you have with them. And if you’re familiar enough with the traits and tactics they employ, they become glaringly obvious and you’ll be able to make predictions. You can literally, by going through your journal, you’ll see a pattern of behaviors. For example, ffter standing up to them or questioning their authority, anticipate a punishment such as a silent treatment, or them withholding something from you such as a promised date. Now, withholding sex is also a big thing. Withholding money is a big thing. That’s the way they control. And after so- called joking with them as they do you. Because it’s just a joke, right? Watch as they laugh it off, secretly sulk and come back with something entirely unrelated and unexpected insult as payback for your comment. Now as you begin to write these things down and anticipate the behavior, the predictability of it for some reason, somehow it makes it hurt less. And I’m absolutely, I know that for to be true. It absolutely hurts less when you understand you’re dealing with a disordered individual, as making a cause and effect chart, write down everything that causes turbulence in your relationship with them and the issues, the consequences that accompany it, and you’ll begin to see a very distinctive pattern. Now the less that you react, stepping outside the relationship as a spectator rather than a competitor, the more obvious the pattern will become and the less impacted you will be. There is a way to, without losing your own humaneness, your own humanity, get educated. Know what you’re up against. You may want to stay with your disordered narc, if he’s not a seriously disordered, he’s still gonna play the games, he’s still gonna lie on you, if he’s a cheater, he’s still going to cheat. If he manipulates you with words, he’s still going to do that. If he withholds by withholding sex, withholding money, that could be a lifelong story for you. It’s the way they are. So you’re making a conscious choice if you are educated, how to stay inside this relationship. You know, I don’t know if it’s a good idea, but some people choose to. And understand that you’re going to see patterns in their behavior if you do this type of homework. And you’re not going to be impacted quite as much as you think.
What Is Narcissistic Triangulation?
Another popular trait of the narcissist is triangulation. And narcissists will use anyone and everyone they can against you to aid them and discrediting you and making you feel absolutely worthless or insane. So they may say their friend – who may or may not exist – agrees that you’re crazy or stupid, okay? And I’ve had that happen. I’ve had a narcissist do that. I’ve had them do it against me, I’ve had them doing it to me, which they likely never said. In fact, you don’t even know if the friend is real. It’s easy to catch them in this way by directly asking them what said friend thinks of you first and again, observing the predictable put down. So find out what that friend thinks of you. And then observe the predictable put down. Another way they use triangulation is by allowing you access to their friends and their family and in the beginning of the relationship, you mistakenly believe you were getting close to these people only for them to feel like they are against you. Out of nowhere. They just all of a sudden, they’re not your friend anymore or even family, and like the narcissist, this is the term has come up many times Flying Monkeys, okay? Flying Monkeys are often family and friends of the narcissist who will take their side no matter what. I was in situations where I’ve been through 3 marriages. I’m in one right now but I’ve been through two others and when the relationship broke up one of my close family relatives called them honoring their total disregard for how I could do this to them, to my partner, when we were parting ways the narcissist in my life would say to my ex partner, I’m so sorry you got tangled up with this crazy woman she’s well… the person that did this was actually a very close relative of MINE. Okay, this is the narc that actually groomed me in my lifetime throughout my lifetime. So Flying Monkeys will alter the feedback they provide you over time and they’ll help the narcissist invalidate your mind either purposely or because they were lied to by the narcissist about you, which happens a lot. An easy way to catch a narc in this is to tell the Flying Monkey something. This is really fun guys – do this if you think you’ve got a narc going on somewhere around you! Tell the Flying Monkey something you don’t (but you do) want the narc to know. It’s “in confidence”. Again in quotes. Watch as they predictably confront you, or alter their behavior towards you shortly after, because they will not be able to help themselves and you will quickly eliminate individuals who do not have your best interests in mind. They’re going to tell the narc what you said, okay? Then they’re going to, behavior is going to change because the narc is going to devalue you to them, and allowing them to believe you’re a horrible person. Finally, a narcissist will use triangulation by pitting you against other individuals, either by comparing you to exes, or making you compete for their attention and their affection. They might do it they do it with waitresses, always calling the waitresses Dear, Darling, when you’re in the room, you don’t know if they do this when you’re not in the room. But when you’re at a social event dancing with every other girl in the room while you sit at the table, things like that. These narcs are yeah… they’re predictable.
What Is The Easiest Way To Identify A Narcissist?
Oftentimes, they have so many side shows going that they can’t keep up with what they said to do and what they did. And since they have been mirroring, which is reflecting your personality, your mannerisms in your interest back to you, it can be very easy to catch them doing so. For example, you can revert back to gaslighting and flip it around on them by pretending you and they had a full blown discussion about a music artist months ago, and innocently ask them if they remember you talking about it. Okay, I’ve done this actually. I’ve done a lot of these because I’ve become so – I needed to validate that I wasn’t crazy. And I knew I wasn’t crazy, but I needed to just have this information. So I became very practiced at recognizing them. When you do pretend that you and they had a full discussion about this person, ask them, you know, do you remember your time they will agree because the likelihood of them keeping their shit straight, especially if you suspect cheating is very low. You of course know this conversation never happened. The reverse of this is to pay attention, especially if it’s a romantic relationship and you suspect cheating to what they say and how they act. They’re not just mirroring you. They are mirroring whoever else they’re interacting with. And I know that they adopt a certain lingo out of nowhere that was never used prior to the silent treatment. So it’s a dead giveaway. Don’t dig for proof. If you do dig, do not confront them unless you are done. Ready to walk. But it’s likely they will put it in your face on purpose. Refuse to acknowledge it, refuse to argue about it, refuse to react, refuse to compete, laugh it off. Or take it as an opportunity to leave because they will just turn the heat up more.
Why Do Narcissists Punish You?
Okay, another trait of the narc is punishments or silent treatment when it comes to discards. Basically anything they do to punish you is merely to provoke a reaction. Now that is so key. What they do to punish you is merely to provoke a reaction. And if you know this, it’s easy to force them to reveal their childish temper tantrums. By having the opposite anticipated reaction. Side treatments work because they provoke a desire within a normal thinking person to communicate. So when somebody gives you the silent treatment, you want to know why. Like, what’s going on? How come? Narcissists know this. Meet their silent treatments with silence and they will revel in the fact that they’ve lost control. They will understand they’ve lost control. Silence, even during a conversation is one of the most their most sinister yet unnoticeable tactics. So you can be having a conversation with a narcissist and all sudden they go quiet. That’s happened to me. My narc has done that to me. They’ll purposely go quiet during an argument because again, they know you will be provoked to react by filling the space with noise. Don’t fill the space. Stay silent. In your interactions, make an effort to state what you have to say, affirmatively. Once – and bite the inside of your lip, people, if you have to – to command a response. Now to understand the difference between demanding what you want and commanding it, is what separates narcissists from others. They command, and that is why it feels as though they’re always getting their way. And when you stop begging, pleading, screaming, demanding and instead of responding, by communicating without speaking, their childish games are forced to come to a screeching halt. If you don’t react, there’s nowhere for them to go. It’s the same with discards. If they want to get rid of you, just agree. Some individuals are discarded out of nowhere, but many are given a million warnings. I call it Faking a Fallout, where the narcissist will provoke you in order to make it appear as though the breakup was your idea. So, and this person that has, that I’m pulling this information from says,” I fought and fought. Each time I was met with, maybe we should just take a break. Like I said.” (He had never said.) Or just leave them. “I know you’re gonna hurt me. So I’d rather just end it now. It hurts like hell to pretend you don’t care.” You must. To catch the narcissist in a discard, the best solution is to simply agree. They will never admit it. Ever. I hate a coward, but they’re the coward that would rather you stop breathing than to use their own breath admitting it. “Okay, you know what, you’re right. This is difficult for me as well. But maybe it’s best to go our separate ways,” quote unquote. This will infuriate them because it’s not the intended response, which ultimately proves they did not mean what they said. It is also a blessing in disguise. If you just agree, or you can wait for them to say, well, what the hell are you not getting with their actions. The longer you wait, the more it hurts. When you stop giving a shit about them being in your life, they will begin hoovering in order to win you back. Now it’s hard to get to that point where you turn off your emotions towards this person, but you must! If only in their presence and you cry yourself to sleep for the rest of your life fine, but you must conceal your emotions reactions, feelings with your life because they are guarding theirs with their life. Most victims of narcissistic abuse – myself included – mistakenly think first, I will try to talk to them about it by gently reasoning with them. Don’t bother. When that fails, the next thought is well, I will reverse it on them by outflowing them or turning it back around on them. You might out fool them. And you may even get the satisfaction of catching them in the above listed ways. I get it. Get your validation quietly then and go. Otherwise you need to understand you will never out tire them and they will keep coming back deceiving you into believing the claws are off, only to shred you to pieces when you least expect it. The longer and more hurtful least expected and embarrassing for you the better. They are not hoovering to WIN you back. They’re hoovering to GET you back. Especially if they suspect that YOU suspect THEY are a narcissist.
How Do Narcissists Treat Their Partners?
And I’m going to guess if you’re wanting them to reveal the traits, they already do or will soon. This is an individual that survives life by studying and mocking other human beings for a living for survival. They were studying you way before you started studying them. And the only reason you’re in a relationship is because they studied you so well. They got you to fall for them. Any alteration in your personality, or attitude towards them will not go undetected for long. So my answer to you is therefore twofold. I had the same feeling of seeking answers and validation. You’ll never get it from them. Learn everything you can about narcissism, but keep your mouth shut. Any confirmation to them that their mask has slipped will ignite the most horrific experience for you if you stick around. For some narcissists, revealing who they are as a matter of life and death to them. Narcissism is so hard to understand because of their masks. Most of us think just take the damn thing off and cut the crap. No, no, no, they need it. Yes, they do it on purpose, but they also believe in it and will defend it regardless of what that means for you. The alternative without it is whatever they project onto you multiplied by a trillion. Why do you think they go to such great lengths to avoid it? Helping them along by tricking or forcing them into some great reveal will not only hurt them, but will put a giant target on you and everyone you love and everything you care about. So ask yourself what is worth, you’re already here gaining validation through your own common sense, rational thinking skills, and 1000s of people who’ve already played this game and lost, including me, please walk away.
What Is A Narcissistic Manipulator?
Here’s an example. Now that was written by a young lady on Quora. And you can probably go and find the exact thing. I just basically read most of it from there. I modified some of it, because some of it applies to me as well. Here’s a piece that was written, and one of the things I’ve dealt with a lot with clients is narcissistic mothers. I had strong mother-daughter issues when I was growing up – very serious. I had never heard the word narcissism. I know all about it now. And it’s quite amazing. But this – Anonymous wrote this: My mother was a narcissist and master manipulator. No disparaging things on her family. It was all about how it would look so don’t disgrace the family name. That’s one of the old expressions from the 50s and 60s. So from age 7 on I was a problem. (No, I didn’t write this. She, this girl wrote this, but it could be my story.) Everything I said or did was questioned or discounted as a lie or idiotic. And all my siblings began to treat me like my mother did. They all slowly got the message that I was somehow bad and to be treated so. And now, in their 60s, people are still telling me how much they love my mother, how wonderful she was, blah, blah, blah. She taught Sunday school, she was in charge of the church activities. She organized school events for years, did so many wonderful things. (We’re talking about a covert here, you can tell that right?) She could have been any women’s magazine’s Woman of the Year. She’s been gone for 14 years – her cleaning lady misses her more than I do. I feel badly I don’t miss her more. And this is written by Anonymous, who obviously, this was her mother.
What Are The Effects Of Having A Narcissistic Mother?
I had another little bit of information on the relationship around mother that really affected me. And this one was written by Sharon Colleen Waters, who’s an independent business owner. And the question was, what are possible effects on a daughter with a narcissistic mother? And it’s kind of interesting, because the way she answered his question, I’m gonna give you that over overview of it, but you can go and find her again on Quora. So this is Sharon Colleen Waters who wrote this, she says books have been written on this subject and I could write one myself. The effects are many and long term being a daughter of a narcissistic mother has damaged me so badly, that I’m not sure I can ever be whole. I’m almost 60 years old, and I’ve suffered the effects of my mother’s narcissism every day of my life, and I’m still suffering because of her.
Can You Have A Relationship With A Narcissistic Mother?
Now, I want to make something very clear here. Yes, there’s a narcissistic component to my relationship with my mother, I am no longer affected by that. I realized that I needed to get myself gathered and step away. So this definitely is Sharon Colleen Waters’ story, not mine. I just want you to know that, but the overtone of it is my story.
Can A Narcissist Be A Good Mom?
A narc mother will cause her daughter to doubt herself in every aspect of her life. There will be no privacy for the daughter. No regard for personal space or boundaries. She will become the mirror for her mother. When her mother looks at her daughter she will see all the ugliness inside herself and punish the daughter accordingly. The daughter will reap all the bad harvest that the mother has sown. There will be no beautiful clothes, no makeup, no pretty shoes, no fancy jewelry, nothing to make the daughter feel glamorous or special. She will be downplayed, shamed into thinking she’s not worthy of those things. The mother will occasionally provide one small trinket just to tease the daughter into thinking that there could be something good about her. If only she worked hard enough and tried more diligently. If only she could prove to the narc mother that she is good enough or to be good enough. The narc mother will never allow that to happen. Friends will be used against the daughter as well. narc mother will gain information by pretending to be daughter’s confidant and friend, allowing the daughter to let her guard down because daughters want nothing more. (And I know this for sure.) Then acceptance and love from the mother. And once that happens the narc mom needs immediate information to use against the daughter at just the precise moment when the daughter isn’t aware, and bam! Mom has demeaned, embarrassed and humiliated the daughter in front of a select audience. Just as orchestrated. narc moms will open and read daughter’s diary as if she’s entitled because in the narc mom’s mind daughter is her property and she has every right to examine anything on her property. Any private thoughts from the diary will be exposed by the narc mother at precisely the right moment. So the daughter now understands she’s not allowed to even think private thoughts and she’s not worthy to have her own ideas, hopes or dreams. Romantic relationships are a playground for the narc mom. Every time she had a romantic relationship her mother would become a great friend and ally to the significant other. Now this is something I was talking about and this is important. She will reveal to the daughter’s romantic partner every embarrassing event or comment ever made by the daughter. narc moms will become a great friend and ally to the daughters significant other so that if a disagreement arises between the daughter and significant other, divorced narc mom is right there to take the side of the significant other against the daughter. Because of course the daughter is flawed and has issues. Narcs and relationships will do the same exact thing. They will never have your back. If you get really sick and you’re literally on your deathbed with a narc partner, you’re in trouble. So you want to make sure you do have good people around you that are going to take care of you because THEY won’t. They will always take the side elsewhere. The narc mom reinforces suspicions of the significant other that the daughter must be the problem. And from there, the daughter will begin the process of allowing abuse to enter her romantic relationship. Because that’s the natural course of relationships, right? The narc mother has abused the daughter all her life. And that’s all the daughter knows and understands. And that’s what she’s used to. Isn’t that all she deserves? Isn’t that what narc moms have ingrained into the daughter’s brains? Now if the daughter has children, a narc mom will take over and make sure they’re aware that grandma is wonderful. And Mom is inept in caring for them. Now my narc tried to do that, and there was a loss of contact. My children are my golden people. They’re my people. So there was many years that went by where there was no contact between the grandparents and my children. And as it turns out, now, there’s only one of my siblings who really has a functioning relationship, full and functioning. I don’t know how functioning it is, but in a relationship with my mother.
How To Handle A Narcissistic Mother
If you’re suffering any of the things that have been written about here around the NARC mother, it’s sad, and I beg you to seek help. I did. I went to a therapist for years to get past this. For me, it was incredibly painful. Very difficult. It was my children that saved me. I refused to allow what had so been so toxic around me to be toxic around them. And it’s interesting how you want to be a good person. You want to be a kind person but you see yourself doing, feeling and thinking the ways you know your mother did or your narc father if you had a narc father. And you really don’t want to be doing that to your kids. And in my particular case, I got so much therapy, so I wouldn’t have that issue. It never gets better with a narc mother, it only gets worse. And if you have children, get them away from her. And I did that. I kept them away from her. Go “no contact” with her. No matter what anyone says because you have to save yourself. It’s truly the only way to save yourself. Don’t feel guilty about going no contact, get into therapy or whatever you need to get healthy and stay healthy. It’s the only way. Anyways.
Can Someone With Narcissistic Personality Traits Change?
So that’s it. That’s all that’s what I’m going to tell you about for today. This is all about the narcissist and revealing their traits. Now, in the new year we’re going on to newer topics, fresher topics, more fun, interesting topics. We want to talk a lot about developing your intuition. We want to talk a lot about connecting with your guides your guardians, your angels, your spirituality, there’s a huge field of study there and I love it so much. This one came up because of some of the clients I have I’m working with right now that narcissism is such a big story in their life that I thought well, if it’s such a big story in my line of work for my clients, this is a big story out there. So there you go, folks, Happy New Year to you. Welcome to January 2022. And I will see you next time on Medium Well with Psychic Sharyn Rose. Bye bye for now.
Outro
Jennifer Gunson 28:27
Thank you for listening to another episode of Medium Well with Psychic Sharyn Rose. If you love hearing Sharyn’s stories and her advice, and want to work with her, all you have to do is go to her website, SharynRose.com. That’s Sharyn with a “Y”. And if you want to enroll in her next session of Kitchen Witchen, which of course is starting in the new year – January 3rd 2022 – well, registration is now open! You can find more information and how to register on our website kitchenwitchen.ca. Talk to you next time!
Transcribed by https://otter.ai